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Mark Coniglio
TroikaTronix / Moderator

May 13, 2008, 3:24 AM

Post #1 of 42 (3839 views)
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Advanced Workshop Discussion	Can't Post

Hello All,

This thread is for those who are taking the June 2-4 Advanced Isadora workshop.

It is a place to discuss what everyone is interested in learning, so that I can create a workshop that will work for everyone. I know many of you have specific topics you are interested in, but I want to see if there are four or five common areas of interest. Still, know that I will do my best to address all of your interests.

I would ask in advance that those posting to this thread come only from those who will take place in the workshop.

So let the posts begin.

Best Wishes,
Mark

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mark Coniglio / TroikaTronix
Creator of Isadora

(This post was edited by Mark Coniglio on May 13, 2008, 3:29 AM)

JoeST
Novice

May 13, 2008, 3:47 AM

Post #2 of 42 (3834 views)
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Re: [Mark Coniglio] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

I did email these ideas to Mark, but will share them here, and also say hello to everyone coming along in June.

I'm especially interested in the following "advanced" topics:

Networking using MIDI, OSC, broadcaster/listeners etc
Multi-scene set ups including global value parameters
Live animation, 3D modeling and tracking (the "ribbon" effect from 16 Revs still blows me away)
Using 3DS files, texture mapping
Core Audio
Core Video differences & optimization
Incorporating Quartz Composer patches
Dual/triple head output and multi stage environments (can bring own DualHeadToGo)
Lanbox DMX output (can bring own LanBox but could we get access to a few dimmers, LED fixtures or moving lights?)
Performance enhancements, system configuration & optimization (perhaps running some benchmarks as a group to check what really works best.)

That's a starter for ten... any more from anyone?

Oh, and I'm Joe ST by the way, AV designer & Technical principal lecturer at LIPA in Liverpool.

Guten tag.

fubbi
Novice

May 13, 2008, 4:31 AM

Post #3 of 42 (3829 views)
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Re: [Mark Coniglio] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello, here are a few thoughts:

I think 3D and particles are probably important (still mysterious to me).
Can we get some sensors to play with? Generating art from sensory input is definitely important to me.

A breakdown of the contents of the lanbox actors and the protocols involved? midi, dmx etc. how to get most out of the lanbox.

Project layout/structure theory and processor budgeting.

Programming techniques.

Juggling with hot potatoes?

(This post was edited by fubbi on May 13, 2008, 4:31 AM)

justruppert
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May 13, 2008, 6:09 AM

Post #4 of 42 (3817 views)
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Re: [Mark Coniglio] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Everybody
Interfacing Isadora with other devices is definitely a topic that I would be interested in. The LanBox seems to be a popular device in that respect, but I'd also be curious to see how one could use Isadora to interpret video and sound inputs to trigger specific events, like for instance the afore mentioned ribbon of 16 revs. Along the same line I would be most grateful to get an introduction into the art of creating custom plugins using the SDK version of Isadora and various coding languages. Custom plugins would allow the use of a whole variety of 3D simulation algorithms available on the web and elsewhere, also allowing for a far greater degree of customization. Having little to no familiarity with coding that whole universe has always been a little foreign to me, much to my regret.

While this is obviously the place to suggest new topics rather then reacting to ones already posted, I can't help but hesitate at the suggestion of addressing performance enhancements, system configuration and optimization as well as benchmarking like suggested by Joe (Hi Joe). While I agree that performance related issues have always been the biggest handicap in my use of Isadora, the subject is potentially endless and much better suited for individual testing and consequently the exchange of the obtained experiences on this very forum. In the context of a three day workshop I would regret if too much time would be spent with it.

Best
Ruppert

ruppert bohle
http://www.lolalux.com

JoeST
Novice

May 13, 2008, 6:23 AM

Post #5 of 42 (3814 views)
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Re: [justruppert] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'd agree that we could get bogged down on performance checking, although I would like an intro to what the VPO/cycles etc details mean... Maybe we could discuss a few tests that we could run on our own after the workshop?

Definitely interested in 3D particles etc as I am similarly bewildered by those.

justruppert
Novice

May 13, 2008, 6:52 AM

Post #6 of 42 (3810 views)
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Re: [JoeST] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Joe
You can always tempt me with some benchmarking tests, but precisely for that reason I would want to put a time limit on that.

You might already know that, but since you seem bewildered by 3D particles I thought I might suggest something:

Attach the output of a Pulse Generator to the "add obj." input of the 3D particle generator. Set "z translate" to -10, the "obj. count" to something like 50, the "size" to something like 0.1, the "lifespan" to 5 sec and then start changing the "velocity" and "gravity" values ...
...you'll get the picture.

Best
Ruppert

ruppert bohle
http://www.lolalux.com

(This post was edited by justruppert on May 13, 2008, 6:53 AM)

JoeST
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May 13, 2008, 7:10 AM

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Ooh, that's sexy. I'm definitely getting a Wiimote for my birthday now!

Fred Vaillant
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May 13, 2008, 11:06 AM

Post #8 of 42 (3783 views)
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Hi,

I can bring a BCF 2000 midi control with motorized faders...
Are you interested ?
I'm on the way to buy a Lanbox LCX but it won't be arrived before Berlin.
Which Lanbox do you have ?

JoeST
Novice

May 13, 2008, 3:19 PM

Post #9 of 42 (3765 views)
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I have the Lanbox LCE, so it's ethernet only (and IR) input, and dmx out. I'll try to remember the DMX tester too in case we don't have dimmers or DMX devices.

It would be interesting to learn a bit of Appletalk... although not strictly Isadora focused.

fubbi
Novice

May 14, 2008, 2:42 AM

Post #10 of 42 (3738 views)
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Re: [justruppert] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Attach the output of a Pulse Generator to the "add obj." input of the 3D particle generator. Set "z translate" to -10, the "obj. count" to something like 50, the "size" to something like 0.1, the "lifespan" to 5 sec and then start changing the "velocity" and "gravity" values ...
...you'll get the picture.

please keep this subject open for consideration Mark.

I use particle animation a lot in other environments and it would be nice to know how to use these tools properly in isadora.

fubbi

Mark Coniglio
TroikaTronix / Moderator

May 14, 2008, 3:27 AM

Post #11 of 42 (3734 views)
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Re: [fubbi] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

We can definitely cover the 3D Particles actor, especially since there is a new version with some very interesting options. (This actor is getting a bit too "tall" these days tho'... you'll see what I mean. Smile

)

Certainly using sensors would be good. A simple thing to do is to say let's all use Wii Controllers. They are cheap, and I can cover the actor that inputs the data, and we can go from there. That being said, I would be personally interested to see anyone make use of the Arduino system, as more and more people are using it.

I also reckon that covering methods to use video input as a controller, as well as covering Eyes++ in some detail is useful.

Regarding the LanBox: we can take some time to explore that, and I'll see if studio 103 has any DMX controllable lights there. I actually think they do... but I'll have to check.

Regarding benchmarking and performance, we can at least discuss all of the concepts and we can make a few brief tests. But I will add in advance that I am hiring someone now who will, in the coming three weeks while I'm in Berlin, be doing some of this kind of testing. I want to establish some guidelines based on a Quad Core Desktop Machine with two dual head video output devices. I reckon that such a machine is a reasonable standard for professional theater work in any case. (I want to see what the real limits are for projecting HD video.)

How many of you need help with OSC? Joe mentions it, but I know for a fact that at least a handful of you already know this.

I appreciate the input here as it is helping me to formulate a plan. Let's continue the discussion.

Best,
Mark

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Mark Coniglio / TroikaTronix
Creator of Isadora

michel
User

May 14, 2008, 4:40 AM

Post #12 of 42 (3725 views)
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There are already good ideas mentioned in the posts above. I think the benchmark shouldn't occupy to much time.

I would like to see

- Sensors (I will take a wiimote with me), Arduino would be interesting
- serial in watcher (couldn't get it to work, or don't understand how to)
- 3D Particles
- Eyes++
- OSC vs NetBroadcast (for sending commands)

I'm looking forward to meet you all.

Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten

pixelorchestra
New User

May 16, 2008, 4:27 AM

Post #13 of 42 (3631 views)
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hi to all, almost all topics posted here are interresting, but for me are:

1) wiimote
2) arduino (let's go on the phisical world)
3) network protocols (osc??? lan VS wireless)
4) quartz composer integration
5) motion tracking (eye++ actor)
6) coding tips to emprove performance

PS and off topic: 22 st of may i'll do a performance with isadora driven by ableton live who live in berlin are wellcome!!!
http://dmy-berlin.com/...-kucha-night/lang/en

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a pixel is not only a little square. |
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jhoepffner
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May 17, 2008, 12:14 AM

Post #14 of 42 (3528 views)
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Re: [pixelorchestra] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello,

Nice to meet you in Berlin.

1) network and communication (max/msp, Director, flash…)
2) wiimote (but I prefere to use Osculator, more possibilities and less bugs), I can come with four
3) sound, isadora coreAudio possibilities are still aramean for me but I would be pleased to avoid sometime max/msp for sound treatment
4) arduino, I can come with some and some motors, as to try some thinks
5) lanbox, I can come with an Lcx and a dimmer pack (only if necessary, it's heavy…)
6) Eyes++
7) Methodologies for complex patching (user actors, how to avoid graphicals bugs etc.)

Mark, concerning the organisation, could you give us more informations:
1) How to pay the Workshop (Credit card, bank heck, cash)
2) Where is the workshop (to organise the stay)
3) what is the shedule
4) what about the meals (it would be good to stay together)
5) what is available (VP, cameras, sound device, midi faders…)
6) Do you think it's good to prepare an introduction for each of us? If yes, what kind?
7) How many people are declared to come?

JoeST
Novice

May 18, 2008, 3:22 AM

Post #15 of 42 (3439 views)
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Hello all,

I'm also good to look in more detail at Eyes ++, because I feel I'm kind of fudging it when I use it rather than really tackling it logically.
As regards the Wiimote I'd really like to look at why you might use it for media manipulation, as much as how to connect it. Obviously buttons are great on a wireless trigger, but what is so special about the 3D accelerometers or other features of a Wii like infra red pointing that would connect intuitively to the manipulation of parameters in Isadora.

I'm also really up for staying in the same place, as it would be a great opportunity to get to know more about each other, and it would seem silly to spread out and be lonely in the evenings. Anybody local know a good place close to the venue that is reasonable? How many are coming so far?

I count 9 so far plus Mark if everyone who's posted here is coming:

joest
michel
fubbi
jhoepffner
pixelorchestra
Fred Vaillant
justruppert
helena palma
david aka mr monkey presso

Any more on the way?

see y'all soon,

Joe ST

(This post was edited by JoeST on May 18, 2008, 4:24 PM)

Matt
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May 18, 2008, 4:23 AM

Post #16 of 42 (3431 views)
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It would be nice to see any video or patches generated from the workshop.

-Matt

JoeST
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May 18, 2008, 4:34 AM

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That's a good plan. For anyone who can't attend let's post patches & links to content on a second thread. If there's WIFI in the venue, and everyone's up for it we could blog the progress and attach details to that; take turns to minute proceedings anyone?

I'm loving the idea of an annual Summer European Isadora Advanced retreat, led of course by guru Mark.

helena palma
New User

May 18, 2008, 9:13 AM

Post #18 of 42 (3410 views)
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I'd like to work on the following issues:

1) Pulse Generator Actor. In particular, I'd like to work on rhythmic structures: fractional rhythm structures and additive ones.

Can I combine different lines (voices) of rhythmic patters in a synchronic and asynchronic way using Pulse Generator to create a polyrhythmic structure?

Can I apply the same rhythmic structure to different media objects (i.e., Shape Actor, 3D Particles, Eyes++).

2) Sensors: I have arduino, PhidgetInterface 8/8/8, and some sensors (light, distance, ir-reflective, flexi-force, ultrasounds), which I will bring along.

3) Eyes++

4) 3D Particles

5) LanBox

All the ideas proposed by all of you look great...!!!

monkey presso
Novice

May 18, 2008, 12:57 PM

Post #19 of 42 (3382 views)
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Re: [helena palma] Advanced Workshop Discussion [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi,

sorry for the late answer, but i moving from country to country and i had problems with the internet. Now i have a bad mobile connection, but its a good possibility to write here:

so here is my small list:

1. Isadora Core- Quartz Composer (mostly 3D, shaders)
2. 3D possibilities with isadora
3. advanced triggering and video sequencing
4. a bit interactivity

cheers:
david aka mr monkey presso
mr.monkeypresso.com

michel
User

May 18, 2008, 2:17 PM

Post #20 of 42 (3363 views)
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Mark mentioned the address in his mail, the street address though was misspelled:

Isadora Advanced Workshop
103STUDIO
Falckensteinstr. 47
Berlin - Kreuzberg

I made a reservation at http://diefabrik.com hotel, its just 2 or 3 streets from 103Studio.
http://maps.google.com/...02,0.016329&z=16

Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten

(This post was edited by michel on May 18, 2008, 2:22 PM)

jhoepffner
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May 20, 2008, 4:57 AM

Post #21 of 42 (3256 views)
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Thank you Michel for the informations. I will stay with friends but the hotel seems nice. A shedule will be good to organise us.
I will arrive in Berlin June 1st in the morning to visit some museums, galeries and friends, perhaps it would be possible to take a dinner together sunday night, to discuss and prepare the workshop (3 days are very short for the program…). Perhaps a meeting at 7 PM at the Michel hotel?

All the best.

Jacques

michel
User

May 20, 2008, 7:40 AM

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Unfortunately I will arrive in Berlin on Monday morning 0810 hours. So it looks like: airport --> hotel --> 103Studio.

Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten

Fred Vaillant
Novice

May 20, 2008, 9:06 AM

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Hi, I'll arrive too on sunday night in Berlin but Isadora will be my focus from monday to wednesday even around evening-meals.

Like Jacques H, I'd like an answer about the interest of bringing my BCF-2000 midi controller because of the new rule of surcharging cost for extra luggages in airplanes.
I'll bring a DVcam.
Regarding to the menu of the workshop, I saw enough interesting subjects on your lists so I won't add things.

I worked on performences mixing Maxmsp and izz through osc actors and it was OK exept for reset were I didn't understand some behaviours and I had to find tricks.
I was running patchs on a strong quadcore bla bla bla and I'll be in Berlin with a tired 1 GHZ but I'll bring a few patches on an external Hard-disk and some trailers and making-of dvds.

jones.jones
New User

May 20, 2008, 11:33 AM

Post #24 of 42 (3210 views)
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Dear all
It would be absolutely great to get any nuggets/patches/info/news from this workshop, via any medium... merci, dankzegging, dankesch�n, etc etc

Viel Vergn�gen!

JoeST
Novice

May 20, 2008, 1:51 PM

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I'll be booked into the Fabrik hotel as recommended, from Sunday until Wednesday morning, and will also be into immersing myself in Isadora (although I might be up for some sight seeing too). PM me if anyone is about on Sunday evening and wants to meet up.

Joe ST

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