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JoeST
Novice


Jun 2, 2008, 7:50 AM

Post #1 of 20 (11815 views)
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Greeting from Berlin. For those of you who couldn't make it here are the notes from today. Excuse the bad spellings and guesses, but we looked at 2 actors in the main.

Isadora Workshop 2nd - 4th June 2008,
Berlin Studio 103

Present:
Mark Coniglio Isadora/Troika Ranch

Joe ST Liverpool
Fubbi Sweden
Jaques Paris
Fred Brussels
Bruno Rome
Michel Zurich
Ruppert Berlin
Bodo Berlin
David Hungary/Helsinki/to Berlin
Helena

Agenda for 3 days

Mon am - 3D particles etc lots of stuff to look at
pm - eyes ++ tracking effectively
possibly Lanbox
Tues - interaction & sensors: Wii, arduino, behringer MIDI etc.
(segor shop sells arduino €26 in Berlin) fusion systems stuff, serial interfaces
Weds - QC, core image, performance

Monday Morning 11 am:
3D particles actor:
- 3D stage orientation actor moves the camera, set to -100 to get behind the image.
connect vertical output of mouse watcher to add obj. chnge particle count to “500” to make trails. fade out time sets lifespan.
- Isadora starts x & y wrong way around, so change y input min and max parameters to min “100”, and max “-100”
get pulse generator set to 60hz for ad obj, because frame rate is 30fps, and could be better higher for pulse freq because background processing much faster.
use vertices input to control shape of obj, vert rotation & sawtooth wave makes rolling obj.
set Y gravity to -10 puts a floor which things will bounce off or fall away from horizontally across the middle of the screen. -10 approx real gravity. If 3Dstage position z translate is -200 then floor at bottom of screen is about -60.
absorption sucks energy out of bounce in Y direction. Friction removes energy in X & Z. both can work in negative to add energy.
gravity is universal to whole system, velocity is private to each obj and will change individuals but leave old ones as initialized.
instead of copying to duplicate actors use cmd “d” to duplicate, and will tile down nicely
use fade in of ).5 sec, hold 1 sec, & fade out to make smoother envelope.
start size, mid & end can be activated with size shift on, also colour shift too.
add 0 to 50 to 50 envelope triggered by space bar to add wind blowing
or use sound level watcher with output connected to x gravity, but change min to 0 and max to 200
status window to show frequency watcher & hz watching
different frame rate watcher, fps an average, antithetical for frame delivery rate, +/-3ms turns red
performance issue – keep out of patch screen if possible as refreshing user interface view uses cpu. use control panel view.
alpha mask layer used in photoshop to make pict file with alpha channel attach to texture. z gravity 5 to drop older things behind.
using std ascii chracter set image 5x7, from examples folder, 6 pixels wide all chars. Use tex map scale and images below, across 67, 1 down
MC used sanskrit characters in 4 x 4 grid for nice random textures
quick and dirty alpha channel: use resizeable background, turn off force 4:3, set background colour to white. get add alpha channel, & feed white into top, disconnect picture into mask,
use background

poss BUGs? contextual menus not working
status window not floating? Oh yes it is after restart, but then on top of stage

Feature update 3D particle either stick with single frames or update in with video.
Don't know what tex map scale does...

Monday afternoon
Eyes ++
set obj count to one for start.
turn up threshold to cut down selection to brightest object
don't need high resolution of image coming in unless wide are being tracked
bounds centre h & v: remember light going into camera goes in by a cone – closer to camera bigger range of movement compared to distance away.
use blob decoder
obj width & height is size of box – use 10 for each initially, or attach to blob width and height
smoother, TR ideal 0.7, too high is stuck
can use invert actor to track black on white
can use difference actor to get motion, between vid input and eyes++, need to drop threshold to v.low, and keep target moving
median filter cuts down noise on signal
use min width and height to ignore smaller objects
lifespan predicts object persistence in frames if tracking drops out, remembering last position and velocity
chroma key actor to track, with low initial threshold, and inverse on to isolate. Use 2 different copies of set up to track specific items.
use effect mixer actor set to diff to make background situation, freeze to grab clean image & then make difference key.
infra red: lee number 87 camera filter plus night vision, does only Sony have true IR? combination of 4 gels @ 50% to get really clear, still project into space. can get IR LEDs (see glow by “peter weiss”) Marco Milan studio infra redbracelets on dancers.
centroid h & v show average centre of brightness – combine with diff from bounding box centre to show asymmetry.

Tomorrow Arduinio segor.de shop in Berlin. in arduino.cc for software & driver, bluetooth & usb version
Attachments: 3D.izz (80.3 KB)
  eyesplusplus.izz (57.9 KB)


Mark Coniglio
TroikaTronix / Moderator

Jun 2, 2008, 10:57 PM

Post #2 of 20 (11787 views)
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Thanks for posting this Joe. It is a real service to the community here.

Best,
Mark

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mark Coniglio / TroikaTronix
Creator of Isadora


michel
User


Jun 3, 2008, 12:14 AM

Post #3 of 20 (11784 views)
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Thanks Joe

For your work after work. For everybody who opens the attached patches, unfortunately you can't see all of the new inputs in the 3d actor because we use a new Isadora version with a much more extended 3d actor.

Sorry.

Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten


jones.jones
New User


Jun 3, 2008, 9:29 AM

Post #4 of 20 (11758 views)
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thanks so much for this post, totally great to get an eye of what's going on there... is this new version you all trying out going to be unleashed any time soon & does it have a lot new?

VIELEN DANK


skulpture
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Jun 3, 2008, 2:12 PM

Post #5 of 20 (11753 views)
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Shocked a newer version, is this Izzy 1.3?! I hope so!


An instant without duration....

www.grahamthorne.co.uk


JoeST
Novice


Jun 3, 2008, 5:09 PM

Post #6 of 20 (11744 views)
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Guten Tag! We are currently using Isadora 1.2.9.3 I think, but Mark is giving us some daily updates to various actors. There is a lot of new material, especially for those with both Leopard and Core video, as a whole host of QC plugins will magically appear from within an Apple folder (see the relevant note below for the file path if you want to try some now and drag copies into your freeframe folder.) I guess a few things may not appear in the final version, especially a monitor to show how late your frames are being delivered, which might just lead to extra hassle for Mark as people wonder why they aren't getting perfect performance.

What you should all find if you open the patches attached to this thread is that they will open on "older" versions, but you will be notified that certain parameters or actors have been removed mysteriously, because they don't appear yet in your release. We're all using Mac (or Hackintosh) here, but there are fundamental changes to the Windows version that may have repercussions for the OSX version, by stepping away from QT. This may not happen yet for Mac Izzy, but is part of Mark's Xmas list.

Today we mostly played with stuff; wireless and cabled, and if there's a lesson for the day it's that "it kind of depends". The atmosphere got a little giddy in the afternoon and there were several side demo's happening at once, so apologies if this misses out too much specific detail. The key issues surround what any interface actually outputs, in what format & syntax, across what medium, and what scale the values are (very important for a smooth connection to a manipulated thing, along with a smoother actor).


Tues - interaction & sensors: Wii, arduino, behringer MIDI etc.
(segor shop sells arduino at 26 euros in Berlin) fusion systems stuff, serial interfaces
Tuesday Morning 10.30 am:
Interfaces:
Wiimote first, then lanbox, then Behringer, Michel's camera.
Arduino in afternon.

Wiimote
Goto Mac system prefs and Bluetooth option. Search for device but choose - do not use passkey - from passkey options. But may not be necessary, and actually better not to use it for Isadora. Prob necessary for OSCulator.
Wiiwatcher plugin won't show up without Bluetooth.
Import some 3DS files into a new patch
Use M_plant1.3ds
set min input of z translate to -1000 to track back from object
get new 3d player
all scale 2000 (reset max in), set y translate to -20
add 3d lighting orientation actor, then change mode to global. change lighting parameter on 3ds players to on.
add 3d stage orientation and also set to global
global values affect overall lx or stage (camera positions), individual change for single items
set x,y,z, outputs from wii watcher to min 110, max 150
set x,y,z rotation inputs on items to min -90 to max 90 (invert z 90, -90)
attach y to x, z to y, x to z for natural feel
use smoother with smoothing of 0.9 and set output min and max to 110, 160 too
all 3ds files work around 1 origin, so it is critical how your models are made.
carrara can export 3ds files, set texture map 256 x 256
render back is better on
tex map scale will alter scale of video
wii watcher doesn't maintain connection across scenes. use extra scene with watcher, & broadcast listener pairs, then activate extra scene with enter scene trigger and activate scene actor (see patch). This leaves connected scene on with jumps
ambient, specular & diffuse settings on 3d light orientation can be coloured individually for interesting effects, but specular will only show up if object is designed as shiny.
distance setting is difficult to understand, and has something to do with open GL

Lanbox
start LCedit software first to clear Lanbox so that persistent DMX values don't stomp on new info.
magic tcp pref is 192.168.1.1, subnet mask 255.255.255.0 password is 777
you need to set a fixed IP if you want to run lanbox & airport together, go to sys prefs, network and settings for fixed ethernet and airport
connect and then use TOOLS>erase lanbox to clear layers
you can then close LCedit
use lanbox channels actor, offset needs to be added to dmx 1, 2 or 3 etc, so offset 5 starts at dmx 6
currently actor doesn't xfade across scenes.
for two documents with only one doing lnbox not such a bad overhead.
bigger lanboxes can overtake certain dmx channels but allow pass through of other dmx from desk.
LC edit can be good when you get into it so that you can run different layers.
Behringer motorized faders
plug in and play! Most devices don't seem to need drivers on OSX, and work pretty smoothly, as long as your MIDI routing is appropriate.
beware that automated feedback doesn't always send a value back into Isadora after moving a motorized fader, otherwise you would have infinite loops
PM Arduino
Helena also brought a - phidget - interface, seems more sophisticated (luxurious). It seems not to present itself as an OSC or MIDI generator/reader, so Someone will need to examine the C++ module to make an Isadora actor to read them (maybe more news tomorrow).
Arduino has issues because you can upload so many different kinds of controller software so that what is output is not always consistent. You need to specify what type of data you are getting.
use send serial open up and "A" P1:C for controller A, Parameter 1 :C enforces
Miditron by Eric very good (maybe order through MC to smuggle to Europe)
iCube expensive but good
JH knows a version from Germany
Michel demo'ed his serial control Cannon camera system, quad & more camera switcher, plus network send, remote focus and targetting. Camera will store presets. Frame delay 9 frames in Isadora, making smile files from quicktime that save mov files with just an URL or IP address
Keyspan usb to serial adapter seems to be the most reliable.
New MIDI Show Control actor in development
someone said Axis webcam has no latency
videoglide is great to be able to use old webcams
imaging source 1394 firewire convertor, buy separate driver with no latency – Canada?
choosing multi-camera input actor about to be released as part of Isadora. Always only get 1 firewire cam at once, but a range of other things.
Developer of 4 ultrabright led piston-like fixture in Berlin, V.bright.

Quartz Composer
new QC plug ins for 10.5 Leopard, /system/library/compositions or /library/compositions or /users/YOURNAME/library/compositions last is best
need to put QC compositions in /library/application support/freeframe folder
some may not load from new ones in Apple folder because of incompatibility.
Need Isadora Core video license extension (or work in demo mode) to see these.
These will work with image rather than video information
A few crash with live camera input especially, but CI effects usually OK
Some QC give infinite size output, inf x Inf, need CI crop actor
images being processed on graphics card
triple or dual head to go faster than multiple cards on a desktop, QC possibly restricted in future to single cards anyway
because graphics cards are designed to take data in not out, then image to video really slow, although video to image much better.
Edirol V8 has VGA in, but may not mix between composite & vga sources?

TIP OF THE DAY: select a wire cmd3 & you can move it

Der afterparty... carrying on after 4pm

more Arduino wrangling. MC sniffed input messages to get format for details.
sensor: string = 1 chars
mark:integer = 4 digits
eom is line feed or whatever

Jacques Initial fears about Isadora being better for output than input seem to have been allayed.

Tomorrow possible look at Midi Show Control and Eurolight LC2412 desk along with Core video (and audio?), QC, performance hacks etc.


(This post was edited by JoeST on Jun 4, 2008, 12:33 AM)
Attachments: lanbox.izz (17.7 KB)
  arduino.izz (2.37 KB)
  nextlanbox.izz (18.3 KB)


nick
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Jun 4, 2008, 4:07 AM

Post #7 of 20 (11717 views)
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Hi Advanced workshoppers

You may want to look at the firmata protocol that is being develop on Arduino.

http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Firmata

This is now shipping as the install on new arduinos rather than a blinking led example. An object that talked this would probably most flexible and easy to use.

Cheers

Nick
Cheers

Nick


JoeST
Novice


Jun 4, 2008, 8:01 AM

Post #8 of 20 (11708 views)
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Isadora Workshop 4th June 2008,
Berlin Studio 103

Present:
Mark Coniglio Isadora/Troika Ranch

Joe ST Liverpool
Jacques H Paris
Fred Brussels
Bruno Rome
Michel Zurich
Ruppert Berlin
Bodo Berlin
Helena
Fubbi Sweden

Today's programme mostly performance issues. edge blend actors, any other business. Stage scaling.
Old & new Isadora
Old Isadora pushed video out of movie players etc, new one pulls from projectors. Now the route not chosen doesn't take up processing. Not active wires will be red. Bypass is also now not active, so very efficient to set lots of toggles on those effects.
When projector intensity is 0% that will also cut activity, but 0.1% or more and patch runs all.

Video delay actor etc won't start delaying or buffering until active.
green dots for mutable inputs mean that types of inputs will change depending on connection.
cycles = how may times per second can it process the whole patch, below the fps is poor, but higher is better. Prefs have target frame rate & general service tasks, so cycles is fps x gen serv tasks, or 30 x 8 = 240 cycles. If only doing video could drop gen service tasks lower, but necessary for sound processing, interactive data.
Movie service task setting once per frame is okay, as Apple's reccommendation for as often as possible doesn't help.
VPO – video processing overhead, what % of work is being used to process video
fps = frames per second, can now do 60fps which is less useful for video but great for 3D actors with particles etc.
Default resolution setting will also apply to actors that generate video without input (background col)
When combining video 3 settings for scale within 1 actor, higher resolution obviously slower. Using default resolution may be more efficient as all run at default.
May move to saving some prefs with document, especially resolution, but might need to write applescript.
In old days of bmp output using size as multiple to avoid scaling, now with open GL doesn't really make a difference, so projector resolution less important. Scaling lots of different things will slow patch so try to have same sizes.
Use resizable background to control font resolution etc, and match sizes across patch.
Render output on projector no longer relevant.
Updating video drivers can be problematic, especially with QT.
Do differing resolutions affect this in Core video? May test later. May also need to check cropping and scaling
Looking at codecs, animation may be best if you have a raid array and can delivery media quickly. mpeg 2 not bad if you're only going forward. HDV supposed to be compressed to dv size with mpeg2.
No research yet into HD: now 2 main codecs, apple & dvc pro hd
Hard disk speed has an effect for certain codecs & amount of streams
Ars electonica Paris guy with big physical slides, depth & moving frames (infinite resolution, infinite frame rate)
izzy-movie-cpu-resolution.html
Build own RAID array & no probs. ESATA raids fairly cheap. WD Raptor spin at 10,00rpm.
Sometimes switch to control panel view to save power is good.
YUV mode: normally RGBA = 32 bit, but YUV = 16 bit, except certain actors that can't handle YUV, such as Freeframes.
Movie player direct won't crossfade across scenes, but highest possible resolution & stabilityfor fixed no effects direct to stage.
Blackmagic cards & some others don't show up as monitors strictly some times, but as video outs.
High quality flag setting in QT pro which will show interlacing details, and use force HQ flag in media window. Also force SQ to get rid of interlacing. Shoot everything progressive nowadays? Projectors & LCD etc don't all handle interlacing
Casio EX F1 camera does up to 600fps, also adventure cam light and indestructable.
New version & pro reg code that will clean up latest and add a few actors.
LUNCH
Edge blend actor, use decent overlap. see parameters on example patch, play with curve. can keystone or spin with rotation parameter parameter. Good with 3D quad distort. If need to cross-fade then set in separate scene. This will form part of pro-users license. For dual head to go use edge but reverse positions on projector actors and physically swap beamers. Use secondary scene to keep masks above everything else. Collisions will cause glitches. Use wave generators for smooth lissajous figures. BUG no scale min max on colour
3D pipe, 30hz pulse, 3ds stage orientation
SDK demo.
Drag icon to terminal to get path on text.
END STUFF
new stage mouse watcher has scroll wheel and right click function
Isadora will now find up to 3 levels deep of folder within same folder.


LX desk not MSC compatible so here are standard MIDI details in the manual.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/proddetail.cfm?lang=ENG&id=LC2412&type=310

Eurolight LC2412 manualdownload in diff languages.

http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/txt/mscspec.txt

the first MSC standard, explaining syntax etc


jhoepffner
User

Jun 5, 2008, 2:28 AM

Post #9 of 20 (11683 views)
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Hello,

Just coming from Berlin, and I read now what Joe make for the diffusion of this great master class… I will take more time later to take part of the discussion. I was the one who came with an arduino and some stuff to solve some problems with Isadora. I tried firmata but there is, for me, some very annoying limitation. The most important is that you can not send order to arduino for motoring output because for servos and steppers (but also for fine DC motors controling), you need to write some code inside the arduino to manage it and to load libraries in the same time. So with firmata you are limited to receive information non scaled from analog and digital inputs and to output digital and pwm informations. The other limitation is because it use potentialy all the in/out, it's a little bit slow, approching the delay of midi.

In my point of view, some other midi stuff (like interface-z for cheap ones) are perfect for that. Arduino can be cheaper but serial is not easy to manage, and the product is very "rough" for a very practical sensor use. The most interesting in arduino is the possibility to manage motors for simple things (like home-made shutter, a projection mirror or even a device to start and stop a cheap beamer…).

In Berlin, Mark explain us part of the "arcanes" of serial in Isadora, I have now the code to receive different data from arduino, We can send data for one motor at the moment and I work to be able to use many. My ambition is to publish somewhere related to Isadora (perhaps the wiki), some informations about Isadora + arduino, to write some arduino code well commented and easely hacked for each one nead, to post some schemas for elctronic concerning motor or triac, accompagnied by some photographies.

Concerning firmata, I will try to make a user actor dedicated for his use, but its lower on my priorities list…

Thank you another time to Mark for this enjoying time in Berlin (the weather was more than perfect, beer excelent, at the moment Berlin is the center of creating Europe…)

Jacques


michel
User


Jun 5, 2008, 4:26 AM

Post #10 of 20 (11670 views)
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Left Berlin today, 24º C and sunny
arrived in Zurich, 18º C and rainy

I also want to thank all for the inspiring 3 days in Berlin, it was great. And special thanks to Mark again for the great software.

Seeing forward meeting all again.

Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten


pixelorchestra
New User

Jun 7, 2008, 4:31 AM

Post #11 of 20 (11577 views)
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finaly saturday... more time to experiment with the hudge amount of information learned in this ws...
thanks to joe for this really usefull blog...
thanks to all partecipants for the good feeling that we had in these days,

see you soon, (next spring in Rome???)

Wink

ciao!

PS. to Mark: quartz+core version rocks!!!

PPS.: to Jacques can you post a simple code (eg.: led blinking and analog read) to run arduino + isadora??? my files don't run!!!!

PPS someone taken pictures??? pls share!!!


......................................................
|
a pixel is not only a little square. |
|
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(This post was edited by pixelorchestra on Jun 7, 2008, 8:32 AM)


michel
User


Jun 8, 2008, 7:19 AM

Post #12 of 20 (11455 views)
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Have only 3 pictures.


Michel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It happens every day: information overload! Time for a reboot..."
(traditional haiku poem)

film:projekt ------------------- autodidakten
Attachments: IsadoraWorkshopJuni 03, 2008.jpg (89.3 KB)
  IsadoraWorkshopJuni 03, 2008-2.jpg (89.9 KB)
  IsadoraWorkshopJuni 03, 2008-3.jpg (84.4 KB)


jhoepffner
User

Jun 9, 2008, 11:47 PM

Post #13 of 20 (11347 views)
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Hello everybody,

I am in the rush for video editing, when I am more relax, I post some pictures and isadora + arduino infrmations. In 2 days.

Jacques


jhoepffner
User

Jun 11, 2008, 10:44 AM

Post #14 of 20 (11206 views)
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Bruno and other ones,

Thats it, an easy way to communicate between Isadora and arduino, in the two way… it's experimental but it work for me with 4 motors and 6 pots.
Dont forget to instal the FTDI driver (it's included in the arduino software install), to choos the right serial connection (in Mac something like usbserial-A6004arV, more tricky in windows for COMX reasons), to choose the right speed (19200 for my sample), No Parity, 8 bits, no flow control.

Do not use the same serial connection with 2 softwares and close your connection before to unplug arduino (can cause crashes).

If you use more than 1 servo, USB is not suffisant, use an external power through the barrel, with the right voltage (6V for servos) and use Vin to feed your servos.

All the references concerning arduino are in the arduino website :
http://www.arduino.cc then playground

Enjoy it and give me some feedback !

Jacques
Attachments: IsadoraToArduinoToIsadora04.zip (69.6 KB)


fubbi
Novice


Jun 18, 2008, 4:47 AM

Post #15 of 20 (10692 views)
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Jaques, I am going to try it out tonight with some basic touchy feely stuff.

thanks for sharing!


fubbi
Novice


Jun 18, 2008, 6:42 AM

Post #16 of 20 (10686 views)
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Compiling the script in arduino is halted by this error, and in my ignorance I have no idea what to do:


Code
 In function 'void loop()': 
error: 'refresh' is not a member of 'Servo


I can confirm that there is no such function in the Servo.h script, so what does it mean?

also, when opening your izzy file she complains about a missing actor:


Code
Send Serial Data (ID = '_Ssd')


EDIT: this was resolved by using v. 1.2.9.3

most greatful for any help and I am sorry if I am missing something obvious.

Jaques, would you like to open a thread for this project? I think it's a really great thing.

which you did:

http://forum.troikatronix.com/...os_from_isadora_P82/


yours

fubbi


(This post was edited by fubbi on Jun 18, 2008, 10:12 AM)


jhoepffner
User

Jun 18, 2008, 10:25 AM

Post #17 of 20 (10670 views)
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Hello,

refresh is member of servo library (but not of servoTimer1), inside servo.cpp and keywords.txt

the reason of using servo instead of servoTimer is the possibility to use more than 2 servos. That can be tricky if you need delay, because delay stop the loop and no refresh… ReLoad the library or use servoTimer1 (but limited to pin 9 and 10), dont forget to change also
Servo servo1 to ServoTimer1 servo1. I join the library.

Concerning send serial actor, it was missing in the 1.2.9 version (but not in 1.2.9.3), there is some topic concerning it, I join the actor you have to place in the right place (open packet etc.).

Hope that help
Attachments: Send Serial Data.izzyplug.zip (30.3 KB)
  Servo.zip (6.53 KB)


pixelorchestra
New User

Jun 22, 2008, 5:15 PM

Post #18 of 20 (10200 views)
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jhoepffner king of servos....

Wink


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|
a pixel is not only a little square. |
|
......................................................


fubbi
Novice


Jun 23, 2008, 10:49 AM

Post #19 of 20 (9834 views)
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In Reply To
Hello,

refresh is member of servo library (but not of servoTimer1), inside servo.cpp and keywords.txt...


Hi Jaques, thanks for all your support.

I just wanted some basic serial comm between isadora and arduino.

me and bruno figured it out yesterday, all I wanted to do was send on/off pulses to a el-wire. this code did it for us in arduino:

arduino for dummies (ie me):


Code
int ctrlPin = 11;  
int val = 0;
int value;
int value_a = 0;


void setup()
{
Serial.begin(19200);
pinMode(ctrlPin, OUTPUT);
}

void loop()
{
if (Serial.available() > 0) {
value_a = Serial.read();
if(value_a == 1){
digitalWrite(ctrlPin, HIGH);
}
else {
digitalWrite(ctrlPin, LOW);
}
}
}


and then a send serial actor with "P1 00" and "P1 01" in isadora to send the on and off to the ctrlPin. isadora defaults on a slower speed so one must set it to 19200 or whatever one used in the arduino script.

fubbi


(This post was edited by fubbi on Jun 23, 2008, 10:53 AM)


rpf_81
New User

Jul 27, 2008, 9:43 AM

Post #20 of 20 (6528 views)
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Thanks for the informations...


-FERRY
---------------------------
http://gfx-3d-model.blogspot.com

 
 
 


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